An anti-evolution argument that gets points for creativity

I have to admit that this fellow has an entertaining way of expressing his denialism.

Of course, assuming he thinks his lyrics spell genuine reasons to doubt what scientists don’t, he’s either unaware that the theory of evolution is roughly as dependent on fossil discoveries as rap is on the London Philharmonic Orchestra, or he couldn’t find a snappy way to work terms like “molecular genetics,” “descent with modification,” and “DNA sequence homology.”
There’s more, though. The rapper is affiliated with a Web site called The Truth Group, which, while even more redolent of Poe-petry than most creation sites, appears to legitimately stump for creationism, with a particular emphasis on the coexistence of dinosaurs and humans.


In fact, if you visit the “Topics” page, every one of the six links there involve dinosaurs. By clicking on these, you learn that “dragon,” “leviathan” and “fiery flying serpent” are all synonyms for “dinosaur”; that the references in Job to a “behemoth” imply that “an intellectually honest person would have to admit that the details of this animal sound more like a Sauropod (long neck) type dinosaur (such as the Brachiosaurus) than any other animal known to have ever existed”; that the huge, sharp teeth of dinosaurs in no way suggest that they were meat-eaters despite the proclamations of biologists, as animals only began eating each other after Adam and Eve ruined everything with their raucous conduct; that the problem of fitting dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark was not a problem at all because only small ones were chosen; and finally (though I’m not sure how this bolsters the Truth Groupers’ arguments) that there is really no such thing as a brontosaurus. Support for all of these ideas can be found not only in the Bible but in videos accompanying these claims and created by the Truth Groupers themselves.
This stuff is–and I really intend no pun–primitive enough, but it’s more the assortment of external links that has me thinking that this site could be an audiovisually enhanced Poe. Not only do these genial visionaries link to Answers in Genesis and the Ray Comfort-Kirk Cameron axis of scalding embarrassment, but they even give the Ikester some link love, too. And now that I’ve raised the ghastly specter of that repository of indignant confusion, it would be wrong not to end this by noting what Ike himself says about dinosaurs:

Dinosaur explanation:
Also considering that most reptiles never quit growing. Extending their life span, like our life span was extended (100s of years). Would allow them to grow huge. And if they were able to give birth, while they were much larger, their offspring would start out bigger and grown even bigger than the parents did. That would explain the huge dinosaurs.

Case closed.

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  1. #1 by Rob W on January 1, 2009 - 9:31 am

    Is there no lyric sheet available or anything like that? I’m not spending five minutes listening to that guy.

  2. #2 by Sigmund on January 1, 2009 - 9:44 am

    The ‘reptiles turning into dinosaurs by living a few hundred years’ story is pure Kent Hovind.
    There’s quite a few of these types of videos on youtube. There’s an African American church group that’s released some that use the same idea that there is zero evidence for evolution.
    Clearly this argument works for evangelicals, otherwise they would have stopped using it years ago. Your suggestion about molecular genetics is unfortunately unlikely to work with them but may be useful for the general public who are used to the idea of DNA evidence in criminal cases and on TV programs like CSI.
    It is pointless simply pointing out the facts to creationists, one must confront them in the same way you would confront a fraudster, call them liars or ignoramuses. We will never change their mind but we can at least let the rest of the public know that siding with creationists is siding with liars.

  3. #3 by J-Dog on January 1, 2009 - 10:16 am

    And in other good news, Dr. Wes Elsbery reports on his website austringer.com that Creationist “Dr” Dino and his wife have lost an appeal to their conviction for tax evasion. Kent is still in jail where he belongs.

  4. #4 by Andy on January 1, 2009 - 12:01 pm

    That guy in the video has brain damage. Scalding embarrassment is perhaps putting it too lightly.

  5. #5 by Angel on January 1, 2009 - 12:02 pm

    Oh no you got it backwards Sigmund, those of us that believe in Science, and not the religion of Evolution have study carefully molecular genetics to know how complex it is. The idea of billions of years, a single cell organism made all of us, now that is certainly religious. You know what you can argue that the bible says this or that, but you sure as hell can’t disregard the ancient civilizations speaking, writing, or drawing in canvas and pottery dinosaur like creatures in them.
    I have seen the drawings and the pottery to convince me that yes Dinosaurs roam with man thousands of years ago.
    Let me ask you this if you believe that dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago and then man appear some 50,000 years ago. Then how come the magnetic field which at best could of allow any live to exist 10,000 years or less. How did life survive past 10,000 years or so?

  6. #6 by Sigmund on January 1, 2009 - 2:42 pm

    “Then how come the magnetic field which at best could of allow any live to exist 10,000 years or less. How did life survive past 10,000 years or so?”
    Let me take a wild guess.
    We have two options before us.
    Either;
    A. The vast majority of physicists, chemists, biologists, geologists, geochemists and geographers in the world have made some terrible error that invalidates the entire body of knowledge of historical science
    or
    B. You’ve just knowingly written down a lie with zero evidence to back it up in the hopes that it is found convincing to those with no scientific knowledge.
    Science is a cut throat business. We don’t all sit around helping out each member of our secret club so long as they toe the party line. If someone discovered such a thing as a reason why life couldn’t have existed ten thousand years ago he or she would be apt to have made the biggest discovery in scientific history. The persons name would go down in history and fame and fortune would inevitable follow.
    Yet for some strange reason the evidence that would prove the sort of point you have posited never quite seems to appear. it doesn’t even appear in creationist journals.
    I wonder why.

  7. #7 by Una on January 1, 2009 - 2:50 pm

    Angel, sources please for these drawings and pottery . Also what has the magnetic field have to do with anything? No, it really, really, doesn’t, honest. Una

  8. #8 by Luis on January 1, 2009 - 5:27 pm

    Angel,
    Could you post some evidence for your delusion? You seem to follow the usual creationist BS and make claims that you cant back up, other than with logical fallacies. Can you actually show you’re not mildly retarded?

  9. #9 by NJ on January 1, 2009 - 5:48 pm

    I think our buddy Angel (who will likely not show up again) was referring to the work of YEC physicist Thomas Barnes when he referred to a magnetic field limitation of the Earth’s age.
    Obviously, Barnes was a kook of the highest order, and his work could be taken apart by a high school physics student.

  10. #10 by Monimonika on January 2, 2009 - 12:03 am

    I have seen the drawings and the pottery to convince me that yes Dinosaurs roam with man thousands of years ago.

    I would also like to see any links to these drawings and pottery, but I can easily imagine them actually existing.
    However, the problem with using these as “proof” that dinosaurs existed with man is that it’s kind of like having some people in the future excavating the ruins of our present civilization, finding a Flintstone’s poster, and concluding from that that humans existed with dinosaurs.
    People from the ancient past weren’t idiots, you know. Sure they don’t have the complex “common” knowledge that has been built up and passed along to our present time, but they were capable of finding dinosaur fossils, imagining what the creatures might have looked like in life, and making stories/artwork based on such imaginings (just like people do today as well, actually).

  11. #11 by Kevin Beck on January 2, 2009 - 12:05 am

    “People from the ancient past weren’t idiots, you know.”
    Which of course leaves us pondering the question, “What the fuck happened to us?”

  12. #12 by literarydeadkittens on January 2, 2009 - 11:27 am

    I DENY SPOON THEORY!!
    I’m not a Spoonologist, I have no Spoon degree, I don’t understand most of the literature because I have no background in Spoons… but what the hell! I deny Spoons! And I demand air-time! Publication! Equal time in schools!
    All you Spoonologists! You think you’re so damn clever! YOU’RE the ignorant ones! Bwahahaha!
    *BANG!*
    (That was the sound of my head exploding)

  13. #13 by Warren on January 2, 2009 - 2:57 pm

    Kevin:

    Which of course leaves us pondering the question, “What the fuck happened to us?”

    I blame guardrails.
    Really.
    Consider the many places in the semi-wilderness where you can find guardrails. They’re often present along nature trails that wend close to sheer drops or cliff edges; they’re there to keep the unwary from falling to their deaths.
    Don’t bother, I say; if you’re too dense (or drunk or physically decrepit) to keep from falling off the side of a mountain, then either you shouldn’t be on the trail, or you should damned well go ahead and fall off.
    We do the same kinds of things in other ways — providing figurative guardrails to the resolutely incompetent (such as warnings not to use electric hair dryers in the shower), which has the effect of permitting the stupid to survive and continue breeding.
    So Bush’s 25% approval rating is more or less an inevitable outcome, as is the bumper crop of IDiots and their cling-ons that we see among us now.

  14. #14 by SDC on January 4, 2009 - 4:51 pm

    This will surprise no one, but I’m pretty sure they were showing that guy’s videos in the gift shop (‘Dragon Hall’) at the Creation Museum during our recent little trip there.

  15. #15 by Kevin Beck on January 4, 2009 - 5:01 pm

    If you go to the YouTube page where the video lives and click on “Statistics and Data,” you’ll find that the video has received 48 clicks so far from TruthGroup.com and 1,178 from the Chimp Refuge.
    Also, Rob was looking for the lyrics:

    They make a monkey right out of me — Yes, they’ve been tryin’ endlessly
    Those overeager bonediggers — they never found that jigsaw piece
    ECHO:
    [They make a monkey right out of me
    It makes for funky biology
    I’m not the kid of some hominid,
    who comes from a lizard, whose mama was a fish]
    CHORUS:
    [Now I ain’t hatin’ on the bone diggers, but I say evolution don’t figure
    Now, I ain’t hatin’ on the bone diggers, but I ain’t never seen no holes bigger
    It sounds like no evidence found, it sounds like their heads in the ground
    It sounds like they’re just too proud, it sounds quite boneheaded]
    You need to ponder whether evolution is wrong
    Whether maybe you was put on under cover of dawn
    They said, “We can tell from rocks, we tell by the carbon”
    ‘Cause this world has gotta flock of descendants of Charles Robert Darwin
    But I’m lookin’ for the odds at casinos
    That life could come to be from random acids amino
    Zero — we know it’s hocus pocus
    And they wanna make all of that an accidental process?
    O.K., let’s pretend a fishy got some kids
    That stood up on their fins and crawled up on land
    Without evidence and here we are today
    If you’re trustin’ in this worldview you better have faith
    You know why? They make too much of nothin’
    Stuff that I’ve heard it should have been on Mythbusters
    Their best forensic samples couldn’t cut the mustard
    You don’t care what none of us say you still trust it
    (CHORUS)
    1859’s the fateful year — they’ve had 150 years to prove their great new theory
    I know some funny ways they found support for some of it, kids
    They made some hominids from parts of gibbons and pigs
    Your museums are deceiving when you visit one they
    Take a couple bones pawn it off as a primate
    They were s’posed to find all sorts of life forms we could study
    They went to the rocks and got dinosaurs in the muddy
    They’re talkin’ down actin’ like the Bible is so funny
    Could’ve got dinos sooner if they tried Job 41-y
    If it ain’t no bunk, holler “We want proof now, we want proof now, yeah!”
    It’s somethin’ that’ll make you mad
    Cause all the links they had were either weak or bad
    Great big digs since the 1860’s
    And after waiting and searchin’ they found out it doesn’t exist?
    (CHORUS)
    Now I ain’t hating on the bone digger, no, not me
    I’ve found trilobites in stone and some petrified trees
    You know evolution ain’t paleontology
    Transition forms are lackin’ — got a hole up his sleeve
    But — the other option’s not fun
    So he gonna make you into a man out of that pond scum
    This is his religion baby, don’t be surprised
    That fishy on all fours on his jeep’s his messiah
    So, let’s not fight — I won’t abuse Darwin ’cause that’s not nice
    And they’re gonna keep stallin’ and tryin’ to prove they’re right though
    And when you catch on we’ll lead you back to the Bible
    (SECOND HALF OF CHORUS)
    Show me them facts!!!

    Again, clever and mindless at the same time.

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